Hi all

I have really been encouraged by reading the posts on this site. I been especially encouraged by the stories of AVB, Shan and HillsBen.

Ive been attracted to guys since I was a kid /teen but I just put it all down to ‘experimental kids stuff’. I didnt know any gay people and I never attached that label to myself ( Im not gay – Im just sexually attracted to guys lol)

At 18 I had a dramatic conversion experience and found myself in a really wonderful penticostal church (AVB even prayed for me at a ‘Jesus Rally’ and it was a very powerful experience . I was married while still in my teens and continued to pursue my new found faith with a passion. I had never experienced love like this before – from God, my wife and my church community.

Sex, sexuality, sexual orientation were not subjects that were ever discussed in church circles and I guess if you were having problems ‘you just prayed more’. I prayed a lot more.

As I became busier in church life I found that any sexual attraction to guys became less and less and so I discovered that ‘my key’ to dealing with all that ‘gay stuff’ was to pray and pray and pray and work harder and harder in church. However people who pray and work that hard often end up in the ministry as did I (for 19 years).

Sure the ‘gay stuff’ would pop its head up occasionally like an unwelcome ‘jack in the box’ but long periods of fasting, prayer and working harder seemed to help (for a time). Keeping jack in the box was taking a tremendous toll on my emotions and in reality my world was a big house of cards waiting to fall.

A few years ago I was the victim of a violent assault and my house of cards came tumbling down. I no longer had the emotional / spiritual energy to deal with anyone else’s problems much less my own (keeping jack in the box). I resigned my church because just making it through each day required all the resources I had and I no longer had the energy to fight off my sexual attraction to guys. I then began seeking out contact with guys and during this time I made some gay friends (non sexual) who have helped me understand more about these issues.

It was sooooooooooo amazing to have conversations with people like me.

I did undergo 18 months of counselling regarding the assault and related PTSD. Since the assault I have been on very poor talking terms with God (my doing) although I still attend a church. The counselling helped me to come to terms with the assaut and I also found that I became more accepting of who I was as a gay man. I finally came to admit to myself that I am gay.

I can honestly say that I didnt know I was gay before getting married but then I didnt know what being gay was. I am still married to a very wonderful person who has done nothing to deserve the hurt that my coming out of the closet would cause. But I also know that she deserves better…I really dont know what the next step is….

Hi jayz

Welcome to f2b!

You did what so many of us do – the best you could without knowledge, time and opportunities to discuss sexuality. And this was not helped by living in heteronormative environments that tend to suppress our gay selves.

I’m glad the counselling was helpful with the assault and some of the gay stuff as with finding gay friends to talk with.

Whatever your decision, there’s no need to rush. In my experience, it was good to explore who I was and feel more sure about that before coming out. But we’re all different. For some, coming out to a trusted friend/s where there’s a good chance of a positive response helps strengthen a healthy sense of self.

Discussing in the forum and contacting some of the guys at f2b is a great idea for gaining support and wisdom in this process as well.

Keep us posted.

Blessings,

Ann Maree

Sure the ‘gay stuff’ would pop its head up occassionaly like an unwelcome ‘jack in the box’ but long periods of fasting, prayer and working harder seemed to help (for a time). Keeping jack in the box was taking a tremendous toll on my emotions and in reality my world was a big house of cards waiting to fall.

Hi jayz,

Welcome to freedom2b[e}. I can so relate to the "gay stuff" you mention above. I was very much like that in my twenties and thirties - implicitly acknowledging that I was sexually attracted to guys, but because of my heavy involvement in a church environment, I chose to ignore it hoping it would go away - but it didn't. I only came out to myself two years ago after a falling out with my church. I also tried the praying and working harder routine - and it was just that - a routine. Keeping jack in the box also tooks it's toll on me until I found freedom2b[e].

We are here to support you in your journey!

Hi Jayz

Good to see your posts on here- and welcome.

Glad that you got something from my posts. Honesty is a really difficult thing when you’ve been hiding for so long- but this is the kind of place where you can share these things- so much support. It’s also a great way of working things out. But at the same time some anonymity from the lurkers.

Ian

Look to my time even later as you. :p

I was one of those lurkers for a short time, when I read more of the stories last night I knew i had to write something – even though it was about 2.30 am by the time I had finished :tired: – but worth it!

We loooooooooooooove it when lurkers come out of the shadows. I guess it is similar in some ways to coming out of the closet. possibly even the first step to help them do that.

As you have experienced Jayz…….you can get a lot from reading here and that is important…..but there is even more for you if you engage….as you are finding out. One thing that stands out for me here is the support you can get and find additional answers to some questions. Engaging as well I believe makes you feel a little less alone, isolated, alienated. Those feelings are killers. The do stuff to your mental health.

thanks for that resource as well. Its huge. I”ve saved it as a resource……and will read it when I get time…..sheeesh…..not sure when that will be.

I wonder if you would feel comfortable starting a new thread on that in the discussion section with the link to the resource at the top………and then summarise some of the key points for us.

Any other lurkers who’d like to come out

………here has been the reason why it can be so much more beneficial to engage……...if the time is right for you that is. You dont want to spend your entire life being an observer do you…….if its time to be a participator then pop on in and tell your story.

I also checked out the resource you posted jayz. Thank you.

The forum is a safe space. You can also post under an anonymous username. Perhaps the following quote might inspire some people …

“You’re happiest while you’re making the greatest contribution” — Robert F. Kennedy

Hi Jayz, I can’t get across in words how your story affected me. While I have never been married or a pastor, so much of your story rang true for me. I lived in no mans land for about 20 years, torn up by guilt and to a degree self-hatred, throwing myself into church life in the hope that I would one day be healed. All the prayers and laying on of hands and ministries and counselling only made me feel guiltier, as if my faith wasn’t strong enough to really see me through and if I just had more failth or learned to edit my thoughts and ignore my feelings I’d be ok – NO ! I’d be a mental wreck !!! It took losing the person I most loved in my life, the person I’d spent 20 years trying NOT TO LOVE and the resulting mental breakdown before I finally figured out that this is who I am … and that’s OK !!! Certainly not ok for Christians who had never experienced the turmoil and pain and excruciating self hatred of trying to live a life that met the current criteria of the church regardless of the mental anguish and damage it does to your soul … but OK for me, and for my God !!! God made all of us, and he sees the heart .. is the heart full of love? or is the heart full of judgement and exclusion … which is the greater sin here? To be yourself and love who you inherently love or to judge and exclude and to send a message of hatred to the gay community? (I’m speaking of the common judgement of many christians out there). As you can see, I am still a little bitter (I apologise for that), for all the years I have lost being happy because I was trying to fit a mould – it’s people that judge, not God – he loves.

Only you will know what you need to do – if anything – and when … but you’ll find no judgement here, only love. This is a very safe place and you will find that should you one day decide to move your life in a different direction, while you may lose many from one community, you’ll be welcomed by so many from another

Forgive me if I’ve been a little out of line – your posting just moved me incredibly. I wish you lots of love and peace … and for whatever direction you take, much happiness. xx

Hi and thanks for the welcome (thanks to those who replied to my post)

AVB Said

I have found it is very common for those of us who are gay and in churches to throw ourselves into the Lords work/ christian service. This serves two main purposes. Firstly it keeps us busy so we dont have to think about the ‘issue’.

Secondly its a subcouscious way of balancing out the ‘bad’ in us. Getting Kudos from God and others. Balancing out the scales so to speak.

Soooo true!

I had written a long reply but ‘putor crashed before saved

I found this site while searching google for a related topic and recognised AVBs name…so I came in and lurked about a month ago.

I kinda get what your saying about God’s love, gays etc but to be truthful it kinda rattles around in my head and goes no further. I still go to church with my family but feel like a complete fraud.

I think I survived the last couple of years by cultivating a neutral space in my head – my ‘no think’ space. But this also meant that by not thinking I was not resolving anything. oh and it hurts all the time.

By the way I am not blaming my assault for me being gay, that stuff was around for so much longer but the emotional crisis it created (self identity/shame/guilt/ etc) stole all my resources and reserves so I didnt have the enery to fight any more. Counselling was sooo good and i found another great resource that helped me also – (free pdf download) http://www.ecav.health.nsw.gov.au/ecav/pdf/when_a_man_is_rape.pdf

I often think that it would be less traumatic to find out someone had died that to find out your partner of many years was gay.

I came from a divorced family and when I married I really believed it was ’til death. My marriage has been really important to me and my family rely on me both emotionally and economically…how can I now say ‘I’m gay’?

I am stuck in no mans land

George Herbert Clarke – NO MAN’S LAND

No Man’s Land is an eerie sight

At early dawn in the pale gray light.

Never a house and never a hedge

In No Man’s Land from edge to edge,

And never a living soul walks there

To taste the fresh of the morning air; –

Only some lumps of rotting clay,

That were friends or foemen yesterday.

After I posted the above I began to read IanJ’s story. I really appreciate the honesty in the way you all share your stories. I really am hoping for – maybe not a happy ending – but a better resolution. In reading the replies to IanJ’s story I read this quote which blew me away

If you go hungry too long, it changes you. The habit of tension, of resistance as a daily struggle, stains the entire world. The negative virtue of endurance becomes masochistic. You measure your success not on the presence of happiness, but on the absence of temptation, the absence of desire. It is the path of resignation. The horrible thing, the hair turning white overnight thing, is this: it doesn’t work. Resignation is only a part-time coping strategy. If you are still alive, you can only ape death for so long. Your mind can convince your body, for a time, that it feels nothing, that you desire nothing. You can do without want. You can gird your life around with barriers and scarecrows, but want will stroll past your guards and gates. It will happen when you cannot plan for it, predict it, or endure it, and once you want, once you desire, your blood surges and you are alive again. When you live in the desert, you will endlessly crave water. — Susan Smith

OMG there is sooo much amazing stuff here!

(actually I didnt write ‘stuff’ the first time through but thought I should edit my language here )

Thanks for your supportive and insightful replies. I really am blessed and encouraged to keep going with this journey into reality.

I read other peoples ‘christian coming out’ stories and I know that sometimes it works out good and sometimes not.

I know I am posting some challenging questions, but this stuff is not in the past for me but rather it is my present (and its not pretty).

I hope to continue to have the courage to keep posting here as I embark on this journey. People might say ‘what courage? You are posting this anonymously!’

I dont mean the courage to type these words, I mean the courage to continue to examine, ponder, consider, reflect, feel and admit (to myself) where I am at / who I am rather than pretend or hide from myself.

Maybe this process of ‘coming out’ has to fully happen in me first? I mean I have come a long way in admiting to myself that I am gay. I am not bi or bi-curious, but I am freakin terrified and kinda keep running away from myself on this one.

I cant find quite the right words to describe it, but its kinda like (as a Christian gay man) that I am in a closet within a closet….if that makes sense.

I would be lying if I said I was not extremely fearful of the future…but I feel that the future cant be much worse than where I am now.

Thanks again for letting me express this stuff. I am finding it soooo much better to write this stuff out rather than just keep thinking in circles inside my head.

PS: AVB I will start another thread on ‘that other subject’ soon.

You got it……you can’t come out to you come out to yourself first. We can never get people to accept us if we haven’t accepted ourselves.