Hi steveo

I’d be interested to know too. When I last spoke with Allan, he could not accept homosexuality, encouraging me to attend his church and keep quiet about my sexuality. I got the “God loves the sinner, not the sin” line, and for me, that was it. After much past church abuse, I couldn’t take any more rejection. I had to accept we had different views that couldn’t be reconciled at that time. I wasn’t going to attend church and be half a person. And so with a broken heart, I gave up on the idea of Christian fellowship.

Granted that was about 7-8 years ago so he might have changed in that time. Does anyone else know?

Blessings,

Ann Maree

Hi Ben and steveo

Thanks for your reply, Ben.

I had a look at Allan’s 2009 online document for the Valiant Man course and it outlines the topics you mention, also including masturbation. Actually the content on the latter subject was really sensible and exploratory rather than prescriptive and one-size fits all so I was impressed with that part. The course content looked to be very much geared for married, heterosexual couples. I thought some of the biblical references were weakly applied and limited. It was also quite old fashioned (or pentecostal) in terms of viewing the woman as subject to the man’s leadership rather than an equal partner. I really struggle with that. I’ve known Christians who have based their relationships on such literal interpretations of the bible, looking to a Jewish system from antiquity that is not how most of us live in today’s westernised world and not necessarily a model we need to aspire to. I mean, even back in biblical times, Jesus frequently challenged the patriarchy behind such ways of being. So why would things be any different today in terms of what he might have to say? And for same-sex couples, how does that work anyway? Who will be the man in the relationship? I really don’t think we need those kinds of role stereotypes.

Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts on the subject.

Blessings,

Ann Maree

Hi steveo

Thank you! It’s important for me to explore spiritual concepts as objectively as possible, using as many resources as I can find. And I really enjoy the process. Doing that helps make my faith real rather than merely theoretical and elusive.

I’m aware that others will have different opinions to mine and welcome those. All perspectives help me learn and grow.

I would like to also add something to a previous comment I made in this thread. Although I chose not to attend a church where I would have to remain closetted, I would never judge someone else for choosing differently (i.e. keeping their sexuality a secret in order to remain an active participant in their faith community). It’s a very complex issue and I can see that each stance has valid points . Either decision involves some self sacrifice. On the one hand, being closetted felt to me like I had to hide an important part of myself. It was as if I was required to be less of myself than I was. And at that stage, I’d worked hard on my personal development, increasing my self esteem to a point where I wasn’t prepared to compromise that. So my choice to be openly who I am outside the church meant that I gave up a lot. I let go of Christian fellowship, communal worship, the use of my musical giftings, contributing to others’ lives and a sense of community. All that to be true to myself and to choose transparency. On the other hand, someone else who chose to stay in church might retain what I lost, also very important, while denying another vital part of themselves. I know it will vary from one individual to another as to how they make such a tough decision and which parts are more important and when. And I respect that, whatever the outcome.

Thankfully, more and more churches are accepting of LGBT and there are brave people in our community who are slowly helping to change church homophobia from the inside out. Increasingly, this means that people won’t have to be put in no-win situations, denying parts of themselves to make others feel better about their dodgy theology. That is good news, albeit a long time coming.

Blessings,

Ann Maree